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13 March 2016 @ 11:05 pm
Windows 10 - Language layout change hotkey disappears  
Windows 10 makes it hard to setup hot keys for switching between languages.
Here's where you have to go to:
- Control Panel
- Clock, Language, and Region
- Language
- Advanced settings
- Change language bar hot keys
Language Bar - Advanced Key Settings

So, finally, you can setup hotkey here:
Change Key Sequence

Unfortunately, it is not possible to find "Language Bar" or "Change Key Sequence" in Windows search results.

But troubles do not end there.

But these hot keys can disappear on you at any time.
For example, after I leave my computer for few hours and return back -- my Language Bar hotkeys are not there.
 
 
 
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 03:36 am (UTC)
I use alt-shift and recently started trying win-space. Have all machines except main home desktop on 10.

send them a frown. I know about this method of switching languages where you set a key combo for each layout but you are first person who uses it in practice... therefore this feature probably gets very limited testing...
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 03:49 am (UTC)
> send them a frown

How do I do that?
Is there some Windows 10 feedback form?
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 04:06 am (UTC)
windows feedback app. You probably have it installed.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 04:14 am (UTC)
Found it (and reported) - thanks.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 04:06 am (UTC)
> win-space

Thanks - I think using win-space for switching keyboard layout is the way to go, because:
1) It is the new standard in Windows 10.
2) It is convenient.
3) It does not conflict with anything else (unlike Alt-Shift).
4) It is conveniently visual.
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 04:09 am (UTC)
i'm very happy for you.

I used ctrl-shift until started using Visual Studio. Then I struggled for years with good timing of alt-shift until I perfected it after which I learnt re ctrl-alt-1. Win-space seems better though as you have very loud visual que that your win was mistimed (and you don't disk closing a window).
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 04:21 am (UTC)
I have other issues with hotkeys in Windows 10.

When I create shortcuts for my popular applications and assign hotkeys for them - if I create shortcuts directly on my Desktop - they work.
But if I create shortcuts in another folder (e.g. folder that itself is sitting on Desktop) - hotkeys work only until reboot.

Is there a way to fix that? Or, may be, some better way to launch my favorite apps?
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 04:58 am (UTC)
well my knowledge is very limited. I would make a semi-educated guess that there is a shell extension that is screwing you up.

I don't use shortcusts since Vista. My modus operandi is hit the start key and type in the name of whatever I need. Search will position the cursor on whatever I need after I have typed a few characters. then hit enter.

let me try to repro though.
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 05:07 am (UTC)
unless we have the same screwy shell extension, it is not the root cause.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 05:11 am (UTC)
Do you mean you:
1) Created folder on Desktop (e.g. "Menu").
2) Created shortcut inside that folder.
3) Assigned hotkey to that shortcut.
Tested that it works.
4) Restarted Windows.
5) Found out that hotkey still works?
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 05:18 am (UTC)
I have repro and it is way worse.

on top of what you describe I now moved the sc to desktop and changed the sc key, twice, the second (not original, not current) is honored.

File a bug! Or publicize hard I believe you have some MSFT employees reading you.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 30th, 2016 12:06 am (UTC)
I reported these issues to Windows Feedback, but I do not think there would be a reply from Windows team.

There was no reply to my previous submissions couple of weeks ago.

So far, 3-seconds delay when I launch shortcuts with hotkeys - is the most annoying problem in Windows 10.

http://dennisgorelik.livejournal.com/104684.html
rezkiy on March 30th, 2016 04:21 am (UTC)
I don't think they _reply_ to feedback. They are more likely to fix something rather than to discuss with you whether they are fixing it.

FYI, many moons ago, I used to work in Windows Serviceability.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 30th, 2016 06:30 am (UTC)
Windows serviceability
I do not work on such scale of users, but still, shouldn't the fix start with business case discussion?
Better understanding of users' problems?

Why do all such discussions only internally?


What did you do for Windows serviceability?
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 05:08 am (UTC)
I frequently type program names for launching them.
But several programs (or documents) I launch all the time, so it makes sense to optimize launching them.

In addition to that, for some of them I need to create shortcuts anyway.
For example, I need to run Visual Studio as Administrator.
Then when I type "Visual ..." I need to make sure to launch my shortcut and not original Visual Studio executable (that would NOT know to run itself as Administrator).
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 05:20 am (UTC)
the search approach works for both programs and documents.

as for VS as admin, why on Earth you will ever want to do that? I can tell you why not: whatever VS running as admin left behind on disk, VS as standard user cannot delete. Broken INtellisense will be the least of your problems.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 05:34 am (UTC)
> the search approach works for both programs and documents.

Nope.

To reproduce:
1) Create document into some obscure folder, for example:
C:\temp\tstdoc.htm

Type "tstdoc" into Windows 10 Start search.
It's just not in the results.

2) Create shortcut for that document on Desktop.
E.g. "tstdoc" pointing to C:\temp\tstdoc.htm

Try to type "tstdoc" in Windows Start.
It's still not there.
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 05:40 am (UTC)
Nope.

set up search indexing for the entire drive. You can creatively omit some folders (I omit SDK/DDK/temps).

I find code using search. Together with emails mentioning same code in code reviews.
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 06:10 am (UTC)
Windows search index
> I omit SDK/DDK/temps

Why do you exclude SDK and DDK them from Windows search index?
To prevent seeing mismatches in your search results?

Why exclude temp folders?
Performance?
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 06:19 am (UTC)
Re: Windows search index
sdk/ddk, mostly for types. there are some types that are mentioned a lot on sdk/ddk but only a few times in my codebase.

temp folders -- let's say I do a historical diff with Visual Studio. Performance, true, but more importantly I don't want to be confused by false positives.

I also have a standard location where i dump 'system reports' from our customers. That stuff has logs, and logs are chatty at times.

I recommend you try the approach and see how it works for you. FOr me, it increased productivity big time post-Vista, and the penalty is mostly in RAM department (which I have 16 gigs of, and they are mostly empty).
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 07:11 am (UTC)
Re: Windows search index
1) So the indexing strategy is to exclude folders that deliver noise in search results?

2) Do I have to manually request search index rebuild after excluding folders?

3) When I was bying my NUC (few days ago), Amazon suggested 16 GB RAM.
I nearly downgraded that option to 8 GB RAM, but then decided that even I do not really need 16 GB, the price difference is less that $30.
So I got 16 GB.
I guess that extra RAM will be used for Windows Search Index now.
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 08:12 am (UTC)
Re: Windows search index
1 -- three times i did it i never erred.

2 -- my experience is that you have to do it once at most. I don't remember ever doing it. So may be I did it, but not more than once.

3-- can't comment. I always have shitload of ram on my dev box. And it was always enough.
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 05:46 am (UTC)
hack away right here:



// edited to resize screenshot.

Edited at 2016-03-14 05:50 am (UTC)
rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 03:39 am (UTC)
did you set any of two checkboxes in 'switching input methods' control group?
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 04:03 am (UTC)
Under "Switching input methods" I have "Use the desktop language bar when it's available" checked.

I just tried to uncheck it and it replaced "EN" icon on the left part of my system tray to "ENG" icon on the right side of my system tray.
Very weird behavior.

rezkiy on March 14th, 2016 04:05 am (UTC)
that is how mine looks like (says ENG). на русский переключает всеми тремя способами.
convertor: pic#125723729con_vertor on March 14th, 2016 04:34 am (UTC)
На винде я использовал программку Autohotkey - в принципе там целый язык программирования скриптовый.
А вообще - разве нет кнопочки - снести винду и поставить Debian?
Dennis Gorelikdennisgorelik on March 14th, 2016 04:40 am (UTC)
> На винде я использовал программку Autohotkey

Потроха Windows 10 заметно изменились, поэтому подобные програмки на Windows 10, обычно, не работают.
Я попробовал "Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator" - такое ощущение, что этой программе под Windows 10 лоботомию сделали.

> поставить Debian?

Debian (точнее, Linux вообще), по слухам, имеет много других заморочек.
gineergineer on March 14th, 2016 07:32 am (UTC)
Зато... когда вы к ним привыкнете, они будут вам нравится.
И вы сможете принимать участие в линукс-срачах. %)))